For the second instalment in our new Good Business series, Jo Sutherland spoke with Andrea Charlson, managing director at Madaster UK.
Can you give us a brief introduction to your career and background?
Sure! I started out as a structural engineer, spending about 18 months designing the roof of an airport (!), which is partly why I realised I wanted to do something more impactful, particularly around sustainability, which has always interested me. I’d done some research on circularity in the built environment during my degree, focusing on the reuse of materials. I was lucky to be able to transfer internally within Arup to their sustainable materials team and worked for five years on projects related to resource efficiency, responsible sourcing, embodied carbon, and the health impact of materials.
That sounds fascinating. What led you to focus on circularity and the built environment?
It had been a common theme throughout my career, but my passion for circularity really took off when I worked on the High Speed 2 (HS2) project. While it was controversial project, I saw the huge potential it had to transform the industry. I was involved in defining what sustainable materials meant for HS2 which included setting out the project’s circularity principles and how they would be delivered through the construction and operation of the railway. Following this I led a programme in London aimed at helping the city become more circular and low-carbon.
And now you head up Madaster UK—what’s the story there?
Madaster was founded in the Netherlands in 2017 with a vision of a world without waste, where materials retain their identity and value throughout their lifecycle in buildings. We launched the UK organisation about a year ago, and it’s been exciting to help realise that vision here. The concept of material passports, which track materials throughout their lifecycle, is central to this, and we’re seeing a lot of interest from companies looking to understand the sustainability of their assets.
How does policy influence your work in circularity?
One of the most significant policy changes for us in London came with the 2020 London Plan, which included circular economy ideas. The teams behind the most significant developments now have to submit reports on how they’ll tackle waste across the entire lifecycle of a project. This has really turbocharged interest because it’s now mandatory for developers to think about circularity, even if stringent targets aren’t yet in place.
How can the industry influence government policy to support circular and sustainable development?
Industry consensus is key. A great example is Part Z, a proposed addition to the UK Building Regulations addressing embodied carbon. The industry has come together to push for it, and it’s been discussed in parliament. This kind of collective effort makes it easier for politicians to adopt policies because there’s a clear demand and consensus from the industry.
You’ve mentioned collaboration as key to a circular economy. Can you expand on that?
Circularity is about interconnectedness. You can’t achieve it in isolation. Designers need to think about materials at the end of their lifecycle, manufacturers need to plan for reuse, and contractors must consider how to buildings will be dismantled in ways that facilitate reuse. Recently I met a senior architect who, for the first time, had collaborated with a demolition contractor to design a building with circular principles in mind. This kind of collaboration is essential for the circular economy to work.
What challenges do you or your clients face in aligning business operations with evolving standards?
One of the biggest challenges is the fact that the standards are still evolving. Take material passports, for example – while the concept is gaining traction, there are still different interpretations of what they should contain. This lack of standardisation makes it difficult for businesses to know which approach to take or how to measure the value they’re creating. It’s something we’re constantly navigating as we work with clients.
Transparency with data has been deemed a challenge. What’s your take on that?
It’s definitely a challenge, especially since transparency around data isn’t fully valued yet. There’s still some distrust and hesitation, with entities reluctant to share data along the supply chain. Even though transparency is crucial, there’s fear that it might reveal uncomfortable truths.
True. For instance, I know of a company that included scope 3 emissions in this year’s ESG report, having previously focused on understanding scope 1 and 2, and their emissions skyrocketed because they were looking in places they hadn’t looked before. It looked worse, but it was actually a step in the right direction.
It’s a complex, emerging landscape, but I think we’ll get there.
How can companies balance short-term financial goals with long-term sustainability commitments?
It’s tough, but one of the opportunities with circular ideas is that they can deliver both financial and sustainability benefits. The challenge, however, is that it requires a redistribution of value along the supply chain. There are cases where clients have seen short-term financial benefits from adopting sustainable practices – whether from reputational gains or securing tenants by demonstrating their buildings are more sustainable. But for these ideas to become widespread, we need robust standards and regulatory frameworks to align short-term financial goals with long-term sustainability.
And for the big ‘and finally’ question: what’s the biggest change you’d like to see in the industry?
I’d like to see the industry prioritise long-term value over capital costs. One of my biggest frustrations is with how we procure construction. The design and build contracts often result in value engineering, which essentially strips the project of its intended quality. If we could just build what was intended from the start, we’d have better, more sustainable buildings that are easier to maintain and have greater long-term value.
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Would you like to learn more about the campaign or how your business can get involved? Email me on jo@magentaassociates.co.
